Revolution controller – Analysis, Nintendo comment, images, more
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Topic started: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:12
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Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:31
TigerUppercut wrote:
Hardly the point.
What the company making the console says doesn't agree with my expectations so that's not the point? Really?
TigerUppercut wrote:
No enforced HD isn't the be all and end all.
No HD support is what was said, not no HD enforcement.
TigerUppercut wrote:
A throwaway comment about horse-power (where did that come from?
Miyamoto-san via IGN.
IGN wrote:
In an interview with IGNcube, Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto offered further insight:
"You know, in regard to the power of the Nintendo Revolution versus, say, the Xbox 360, we're looking at making a small, quiet, affordable console," he said. "If you look at trying to incorporate all that, of course we might not have the horsepower that some other companies have..."
"You know, in regard to the power of the Nintendo Revolution versus, say, the Xbox 360, we're looking at making a small, quiet, affordable console," he said. "If you look at trying to incorporate all that, of course we might not have the horsepower that some other companies have..."
But I suppose he's not to be trusted either?
TigerUppercut wrote:
The HD comment IIRC came from f**king Kaplan [sp] so that's worth squat)
The word of a representative of the company that is to produce the console? Which has not been retracted? Or "explained"? Or hushed up?
TigerUppercut wrote:
My point was: It would be foolish to write off the graphical performance of the Revolution before we've seen any graphics.
This is true, but I think we should base any assumptions we do make on the available evidence. ATM that is only the words from Nintendo executives' mouths. If we have to ignore their comments on the graphics, then we have to ignore their comments on the controller too.
TigerUppercut wrote:
As was mentioned, Nintendo, (in another throwaway comment, I think from Iwata) Rev will see 4X the graphical power of the GameCube. Has anything we've seen on either 360 or PS3 massive surpassed this projected benchmark? No.
I think the MGS4 video is over four times better than the average GameCube game over its lifetime. It's not four times better than RE4, but that's a game produced much later in the console's lifetime than anything we will be able to compare against PS3 or X360.
Lets face it, when Sony and Microsoft are making the claims they are, for Nintendo to keep saying "it's not about graphics", "it's not about HD", "it's about the games" means they don't see themselves being able to compete with graphics. Sure they may be playing down the graphics and will surprise us at launch, but currently all we have to base comparisons on are their words.
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:05
tyrion wrote:
Lets face it, when Sony and Microsoft are making the claims they are, for Nintendo to keep saying "it's not about graphics", "it's not about HD", "it's about the games" means they don't see themselves being able to compete with graphics. Sure they may be playing down the graphics and will surprise us at launch, but currently all we have to base comparisons on are their words.
No i believe that nintendo have realised that further progressions in graphical capability are not what the customers are looking for. Not that the revolution won't be able to compete. Nintendo arn't looking to compete with microsoft or sony they are trying to open up the market to new and dormant gamers (hence the free downloads of old nintendo titles). They are looking for a change in direction. Personally nintendo have always managed to produce asthetically pleasing games, paper mario 2 is a testament to this. The game is quite a simple looking game but still looks amazing because of the well created cel shaded graphics (thank you jet set radio we will always remember you) . This is where nintendo will be aiming themselves, all of there current in house games (mario kart, tennis, golf, party etc) don't need to look any better than they do, it's about the play mechanic and the play mechanic for all of these titles are where nintendo have the trump card. The best example i can give to the lack of improvement in the graphical depertment would be the arcarde version of Mariokart, the graphics are not that much improved when compared to the GC version..... reason..... its about how it plays.... not how it looks. So could everybody stop worrying about how the revolution titles are going to look. We know they will look very stylised and they will be better than the GC. The important thing is about how the revolution titles will play and we already know that because of the controller this will be massivly different and probably significantlt better than either sony or microsofts offerings....K+
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:06
The thing about Sony and Microsoft's claims are they're lieing bastards and in no way give the conditions that they're claims are based upon.
We have 5 years of history to use as base of comparisons. We had 5 years we're Sony and MS we're screaming that they're consoles were more powerfull then God (i'm exagerating, i know)and you had Nintendo who gave a extremely modest but realistic performance number for the Gamecube (12-14 mill polys while Factor 5 in a interview stated that they allready could push 20 mill in a game and with some tweaking and playing around with the textures and lighting 30 mill only days afterwards).
We know Nintendo makes hyperefficient hardware with a minimum of bottlenecks and we know that the X360 and PS3 are generally bitches to work for, it will take bloody 4 years before anyone has made a engine that can use the 3 cpu's of the X360, you still don't have a game then. Will the Revolution possess less horsepower then the other 2, probably yes, what does it actually mean? B******s, zippo, square nothing. So was the GameCube (theoreticall) and that console has (one of) the best bloody looking games of this generation. How? Because they know how to build console directly aimed to make and run games on it as fast and efficient as possible.
The Cell-chip is not diesigned to run games, it's designed to be a jack-of-all-trades and therefore a master in none. it has heaps of power but because of being that type of jack allready a good portion of that power will never be able to be used for games.
The X360 cpu is a huge laugh: 3 so hugely watered down G5's where they generally just dumped all the good stuff and replaced it with cheap-ass parts so MS can save a buck or 2.
It has been declared that 90% of the powerleap done by those 2 consoles, the GPU is the cause.
Looking at the rumors of what the Revoluton would be we mostly see the return of a GPU called the RN520 based on ATI's R500 which the X360 uses but cutomized to meet Nintendo's whishes.
Will the Revolution (theoretical) be less powerfull then the other 2, probably yes. Will the difference be noticeable? Probably no.
Nintendo just needs a well-streamed custom made cpu designed to run games, a R500 and superior RAM assembly and integration and bang it's console can beat the X360 on-screen.
And what do you know...Nintendo know's how to get those 3 things because it has a) allready did it with the Gamecube and b) They have the same supplier as their competitor.
So let's keep in mind
a) Sony and Microsoft higly overestimate their claims
b) Nintendo underestimates its claims
c) Nintendo's high expertise in making a GAMEconsole which the other 2 do not posses or do not posses the intention for.
d) The X360 and PS3 posses huge bottlenecks and are actually designed to save money/be jack-of-all-trades... which brings practical power down...a lot.
So Theoreticall we should be able to see a difference, in real life we won't... much like theoreticall the Xbox should have the shortest loading times but in real life the 'underpowered' purple cube has it and the same graphical power to boot to...
and yes Perrin Kaplan is a idiot and her comments must be taken as those of idiots, they must be taken out to the trashpile as fast as possible.
We have 5 years of history to use as base of comparisons. We had 5 years we're Sony and MS we're screaming that they're consoles were more powerfull then God (i'm exagerating, i know)and you had Nintendo who gave a extremely modest but realistic performance number for the Gamecube (12-14 mill polys while Factor 5 in a interview stated that they allready could push 20 mill in a game and with some tweaking and playing around with the textures and lighting 30 mill only days afterwards).
We know Nintendo makes hyperefficient hardware with a minimum of bottlenecks and we know that the X360 and PS3 are generally bitches to work for, it will take bloody 4 years before anyone has made a engine that can use the 3 cpu's of the X360, you still don't have a game then. Will the Revolution possess less horsepower then the other 2, probably yes, what does it actually mean? B******s, zippo, square nothing. So was the GameCube (theoreticall) and that console has (one of) the best bloody looking games of this generation. How? Because they know how to build console directly aimed to make and run games on it as fast and efficient as possible.
The Cell-chip is not diesigned to run games, it's designed to be a jack-of-all-trades and therefore a master in none. it has heaps of power but because of being that type of jack allready a good portion of that power will never be able to be used for games.
The X360 cpu is a huge laugh: 3 so hugely watered down G5's where they generally just dumped all the good stuff and replaced it with cheap-ass parts so MS can save a buck or 2.
It has been declared that 90% of the powerleap done by those 2 consoles, the GPU is the cause.
Looking at the rumors of what the Revoluton would be we mostly see the return of a GPU called the RN520 based on ATI's R500 which the X360 uses but cutomized to meet Nintendo's whishes.
Will the Revolution (theoretical) be less powerfull then the other 2, probably yes. Will the difference be noticeable? Probably no.
Nintendo just needs a well-streamed custom made cpu designed to run games, a R500 and superior RAM assembly and integration and bang it's console can beat the X360 on-screen.
And what do you know...Nintendo know's how to get those 3 things because it has a) allready did it with the Gamecube and b) They have the same supplier as their competitor.
So let's keep in mind
a) Sony and Microsoft higly overestimate their claims
b) Nintendo underestimates its claims
c) Nintendo's high expertise in making a GAMEconsole which the other 2 do not posses or do not posses the intention for.
d) The X360 and PS3 posses huge bottlenecks and are actually designed to save money/be jack-of-all-trades... which brings practical power down...a lot.
So Theoreticall we should be able to see a difference, in real life we won't... much like theoreticall the Xbox should have the shortest loading times but in real life the 'underpowered' purple cube has it and the same graphical power to boot to...
and yes Perrin Kaplan is a idiot and her comments must be taken as those of idiots, they must be taken out to the trashpile as fast as possible.
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:27
I think that one of the things behind the Revolutions cut down specs, is that it is not only cheaper, but it offers better prospects as a handheld in future.
The GBA replacement is said to be based on the Gamecube, and the Revolution is an extension to the Gamecube. The resolution of the Revolution is also very good for a handheld. This would allow them to eventually replace a handheld Gamecube with a handheld Revolution, very good strategy, if people go for it in the mean time.
The problem they face is also systems, like the Gizmondo 2, with TV output, theoretically allowing them to be used as a home machine with 3G/4G download service (I say a UWB streaming feature to a receiver attached to the TV would be better, just walk into the room take it out of the pocket and play it wirelessly to the TV). If I was Nintendo, that would worry me. People would be torn between 360/PS3, or 360/PS3 and handheld, squeezing the Revo for mind space.
Nintendo doesn't really have access to MS's priority next gen 3D architecture used in the 360. But you will notice the next gen architecture comes online in the DirectX spec around the time of the Revolution launch, so maybe then, but still there are other things they could do.
The GBA replacement is said to be based on the Gamecube, and the Revolution is an extension to the Gamecube. The resolution of the Revolution is also very good for a handheld. This would allow them to eventually replace a handheld Gamecube with a handheld Revolution, very good strategy, if people go for it in the mean time.
The problem they face is also systems, like the Gizmondo 2, with TV output, theoretically allowing them to be used as a home machine with 3G/4G download service (I say a UWB streaming feature to a receiver attached to the TV would be better, just walk into the room take it out of the pocket and play it wirelessly to the TV). If I was Nintendo, that would worry me. People would be torn between 360/PS3, or 360/PS3 and handheld, squeezing the Revo for mind space.
Nintendo doesn't really have access to MS's priority next gen 3D architecture used in the 360. But you will notice the next gen architecture comes online in the DirectX spec around the time of the Revolution launch, so maybe then, but still there are other things they could do.
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:13
Better graphics are not garanteed to sell consoles, if you believe that then you are wrong.
I will still be amazed when i see the graphics on PS3 and Xbox 360 but in time that will become normal to me and i will realise that the graphics may have improved but the games are still the same. Revolution will have good graphics, it will also have something fresh and exciting. Not to mention that it is by far the most attractive console of the 3.
There will still be people faithful to Nintendo, like me, and there will be lots of people that buy PS3 because the brand is so strong. What i fear is though that people will get bored of nothing more than a graphically updated tired formula and will be too stubborn to invest or even try Nintendo's alternative.
I love all types of gaming and that is not limited to just Nintendo so before all the fan boys start complaining and bitching just think about the possibilties there could be about this machine, and try and swallow some pride to at least see what the machine is like. Violence and realism in games is cool to a certain degree but now is just digusting and old hat.
I will still be amazed when i see the graphics on PS3 and Xbox 360 but in time that will become normal to me and i will realise that the graphics may have improved but the games are still the same. Revolution will have good graphics, it will also have something fresh and exciting. Not to mention that it is by far the most attractive console of the 3.
There will still be people faithful to Nintendo, like me, and there will be lots of people that buy PS3 because the brand is so strong. What i fear is though that people will get bored of nothing more than a graphically updated tired formula and will be too stubborn to invest or even try Nintendo's alternative.
I love all types of gaming and that is not limited to just Nintendo so before all the fan boys start complaining and bitching just think about the possibilties there could be about this machine, and try and swallow some pride to at least see what the machine is like. Violence and realism in games is cool to a certain degree but now is just digusting and old hat.
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:47
when do you all think the rev will be out?
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 23:10
majin dboy wrote:
when do you all think the rev will be out?
nintendo have said that the rev will be out around 2006 possibley 2007 in the european regions. However this is the worst case scenario for the release. Nintendo know that in the current market they need to release there machine ASAP especially with the xbox 360 due out in the next few months. As a personal opinion i would prefer nintendo to take there time with the machine, i mean all of us on the forum haven't managed to get our heads round the controller so i guess the same must be said for the in house developers. I would rather that nintendo release the machine later with some absolutly kick ass software that exploits there new controller than rush the machine to keep in with sony and microsoft who seem to believe there current hardware is out of date. At best in the european regions i think that the machine will be realesed in time for next christmas at worst it will follow the n64 launch and be available from march 2007. As far as the japanese regions concered (i.e. the importers out there) the machine will be available from june next year. I know we get a rough deal as nintendos owners but the thing is the games really are worth it. I might be being realistic but take the worst case scenario as far as nintendo is concerned and be plesantly suprised if they manage to get it out earlier. I know i'd rather play another game like Mario 64 and be overwhelmed by the console than end up with a lacklustre saturn equivilent.... remember that good things come to those who wait....
Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:51
So what's the upshot?
Do we like Revolution or not?
I am in the YES! camp. I buy Nintendo's assertions that it will change gaming for the better. That it will expand the market and that innovation in controll in more important than chasing graphical power.
What are your thoughts?
Do we like Revolution or not?
I am in the YES! camp. I buy Nintendo's assertions that it will change gaming for the better. That it will expand the market and that innovation in controll in more important than chasing graphical power.
What are your thoughts?
Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:25
im in the revolution camp.the sad fact is other games that dont like the look of the rev probaly wont try it.first impressions are very important and to a lot of ppl the rev controller just looks like a tv remote.
Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:52
TigerUppercut wrote:
Do we like Revolution or not?
The simple answer is defo. Many people will be doing the same knee jerk reaction as when the Big N released the details on the DS (yes i'm talking about you pilot 13). But i'd say that the REV just like the DS will alter many peoples view on games in general. Its going to be very different as a console though, all of us hardcore gamers out there are going to love it, however nintendo will always have its loyal fans and they know that know matter what they put out (bar the terrible VB) we will buy it. The really interesting test will be how nintendo will bring the machine to the new gamers out there. I think it going to be interesting watching the marketing divisions sell the REV to these people and i believe that they will have some sort of trick up there sleeve. hmmmmmm...
But the simple answer is yes i love the machine and the possibilities that could stem from the unique controller, the game i am most looking forward too will have to be multiplayer warioware....... go on nintendo bring it on... :D
Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:08
I'm with the yes folk too. It's clear this is a new, exciting chapter in gaming. Those who can't see the dream will have to wait and expirience it in order to see what they can't see right now.
Whatever happens now should be interesting from everyone in the industry, more so I'd like to know what MS and Sony think of the Rev (not that I really care, but just for a laugh perhaps).
Damn, it's good to be a 21st century gamer.
Whatever happens now should be interesting from everyone in the industry, more so I'd like to know what MS and Sony think of the Rev (not that I really care, but just for a laugh perhaps).
Damn, it's good to be a 21st century gamer.
Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:20
since i have way to much free time at work and spend way to much time making spread sheets... i figured i would do somethign productive... then i realised that wouldnt be my style and i made this instead... it clearly illustrates why there is a better than fifty percent chance the revolution will succed... which i think is pretty good considering how big a departure it is...
for refference i dont actually base my judgment on this... i just felt like killing time... and thought ya'll might find it amusing.
i do however think this is going to be a great thing and i am, for the first time since its anouncment, excited about the revolution.
also, i know the joke about it lookign like a sex toy has been made... but does anyone else thing this is the perfect time for nintendo to make more "adult" games? imagine petting the dogs in nintendogs... now replace them a woman (or man, we do want a big audeance after all)... we all know how the japanese love life simulators and porn... if only i was a designer... thats a billion dollar idea right there... mark my words ;)
*does this count as prior art?*
____________
for refference i dont actually base my judgment on this... i just felt like killing time... and thought ya'll might find it amusing.
i do however think this is going to be a great thing and i am, for the first time since its anouncment, excited about the revolution.
also, i know the joke about it lookign like a sex toy has been made... but does anyone else thing this is the perfect time for nintendo to make more "adult" games? imagine petting the dogs in nintendogs... now replace them a woman (or man, we do want a big audeance after all)... we all know how the japanese love life simulators and porn... if only i was a designer... thats a billion dollar idea right there... mark my words ;)
*does this count as prior art?*
____________
Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:54
Though I want more than graphics myself, for the consumer, they are a sure way to win over new customers, and old. The problem for Revo is they are making outrageous claims that HD doesn't matter, like they did with DVD's and CD's behind the time. HD does look smoother and better, HD TV prices are in fall, and probably far more of them will be sold then what Nintendo is suggesting. The truth is that it does look better and smoother, but to keep up with rendering going Standard TV might be the only way for the Revo to keep up.
There is a lot more room for improvement in rendering to, I've seen better rendering techniques, and they do make things look better. But having said that shoots of the latest Quake game reminds us a lot of so many previous games.
But having said the above, they are getting over the graphics thing, they say a lot of power is now to be diverted to real world physics. The 360's GPU has a structure that can be used for far more things then 3D, the PS3 maybe less so (we will see). But real world simulation games, like that Sega Dreamcast one) will require this sort of power to get better.
So he says, before somebody puts a battle axe through his skull in his FPS game, then all is forgotten! ;)
There is a lot more room for improvement in rendering to, I've seen better rendering techniques, and they do make things look better. But having said that shoots of the latest Quake game reminds us a lot of so many previous games.
But having said the above, they are getting over the graphics thing, they say a lot of power is now to be diverted to real world physics. The 360's GPU has a structure that can be used for far more things then 3D, the PS3 maybe less so (we will see). But real world simulation games, like that Sega Dreamcast one) will require this sort of power to get better.
ann0uk wrote:
Better graphics are not garanteed to sell consoles, if you believe that then you are wrong.
Violence and realism in games is cool to a certain degree but now is just digusting and old hat.
Violence and realism in games is cool to a certain degree but now is just digusting and old hat.
So he says, before somebody puts a battle axe through his skull in his FPS game, then all is forgotten! ;)
Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:53
LUPOS wrote:
since i have way to much free time at work and spend way to much time making spread sheets... i figured i would do somethign productive... then i realised that wouldnt be my style and i made this instead... it clearly illustrates why there is a better than fifty percent chance the revolution will succed... which i think is pretty good considering how big a departure it is...
for refference i dont actually base my judgment on this... i just felt like killing time... and thought ya'll might find it amusing.
i do however think this is going to be a great thing and i am, for the first time since its anouncment, excited about the revolution.
also, i know the joke about it lookign like a sex toy has been made... but does anyone else thing this is the perfect time for nintendo to make more "adult" games? imagine petting the dogs in nintendogs... now replace them a woman (or man, we do want a big audeance after all)... we all know how the japanese love life simulators and porn... if only i was a designer... thats a billion dollar idea right there... mark my words ;)
*does this count as prior art?*
____________
for refference i dont actually base my judgment on this... i just felt like killing time... and thought ya'll might find it amusing.
i do however think this is going to be a great thing and i am, for the first time since its anouncment, excited about the revolution.
also, i know the joke about it lookign like a sex toy has been made... but does anyone else thing this is the perfect time for nintendo to make more "adult" games? imagine petting the dogs in nintendogs... now replace them a woman (or man, we do want a big audeance after all)... we all know how the japanese love life simulators and porn... if only i was a designer... thats a billion dollar idea right there... mark my words ;)
*does this count as prior art?*
____________
That's amazing.
And 100% cast iron proof of success.
Seriosuly though, it's bloody good - A great way of looking at it actually! :)
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799 comments
No enforced HD isn't the be all and end all. A throwaway comment about horse-power (where did that come from? The HD comment IIRC came from f**king Kaplan [sp] so that's worth squat)
My point was: It would be foolish to write off the graphical performance of the Revolution before we've seen any graphics. As was mentioned, Nintendo, (in another throwaway comment, I think from Iwata) Rev will see 4X the graphical power of the GameCube. Has anything we've seen on either 360 or PS3 massive surpassed this projected benchmark? No.